From what little I've read, the animosity between the Jews and the Arabs is pretty old. I think the feud goes back to, like, Jesus times....or something.
7 comments:
Anonymous
said...
Sorry for the long one. I really need to start my own blog.
Your statement is not entirely correct. The current Jewish/Muslim bruhaha goes back to around the foundation of Israel in 1948, or possibly a few decades before that when Zionism started to take off and Jews began to emigrate to Palestine in earnest.
While one might stretch and call the Philistines and Canaanites proto-Arabs, it should be noted that the early Hebrews' struggles with these peoples were well before Jesus or Mohammad entered the scene. And these conflicts generally stopped once the Greeks and Romans took over in the Levant.
And lastly, from the Middle Ages until the second half of the 20th Century, Muslims were way more friendly towards Jews than were Christians. Jews lived fairly peacably in Moorish Spain and it was the Catholics who later instigated the Inquisition. Jews peacefully coexisted with Muslims in the Holy Land before the Crusades, and when Jerusalem was sacked in 1099, the Crusaders massacred both Jews and Muslims in droves. The Crusaders also massacred Jews in Europe on their way to the Holy Land. Furthermore the Ottoman Empire was fairly benign towards Jews as well, letting many of those who were forced to flee Catholic Spain settle in their territories. The Dreyfus Affair happened in Christian France, pogroms happened in Christian Russia and the Holocaust happened in Christian Europe (Pope Pius XII aided the Holocaust, or at least turned a blind eye towards it).
Of course there were squabbles between Jews and Muslims throughout the ages - Jews had to pay crazy taxes to the Islamic authorities and there were other items - but nothing approaching the cataclysmic confrontations and massacres between Christians and Jews or Christians and Muslims.
Call me an Jewish apostate, but I think it's the combination of Israel and oil that's been causing troubles for the past 60 years. From Arab eyes, the state of Israel is colonialism, a festering open wound on the flesh of the Muslim heartland. And obscene oil revenues leads to despotic governments who channel peoples' dissatisfaction into anti-Semitism. This is probably too simplistic, but what do you want on Clipstone St.?
I also firmly believe Israel has a right to exist and to defend itself, but this right has to somehow be balanced with the Arab/Muslim considerations. I don't know how to accomplish this; it seems even more intractable to me than the quagmire in Iraq.
Random - awesome post!! And not to argue against your admittedly superior knowledge of History, but I do believe that the people I am referring to as "Arabs" have had a problem with the Jews for at least 1,000 years. Not a serious problem, mind you, but one nonetheless. Now the Zionist movement certainly started to fan the flames, and the creation of Israel brought it to a boil (one sentence, two cliches!). My post didn't mean to take a side, it was more a reaction to the sadness that I feel for the innocents on both sides. War is bad, mgay?
Mixing metaphors is almost as much fun as mixing Saphire & tonics.
What 1000 year history of strife between Arabs and Jews do you mean? Let's review. 1000 ago it was year 1000. From 1000 to 1300 or so, the main conflict in the Levant was the Crusades. Between Christian Europeans and Eastern Muslims. Jews were slaughtered as byproduct, mainly by Christians. 1300-1900, roughly, the Ottoman Empire ruled that same area and, as far as I recall, there weren't major conflicts between the empire and the Jews, or between Arabs and Jews, or between Muslims and Jews. Then it's 1900 and Zionism spreads its wings (how's that metaphor?) and the turds drop from the sky.
Of course there might've been land issues between the peoples up until 1900 or so, but just what major, 1000 year long conflict are you referring to? I'm not trying to be cocky. Am I completely missing something?
Random - I am not referring to any major conflict, and I think that's where the misunderstanding lies. From what I know, there is a longstanding, general dislike. That's all I meant. But I learn more from you comments than I did in 4 years of High School. Camino 2 U!!!
From what little I've read, the animosity between the Jews and the Arabs is pretty old. I think the feud goes back to, like, Jesus times....or something.
7 comments:
Sorry for the long one. I really need to start my own blog.
Your statement is not entirely correct. The current Jewish/Muslim bruhaha goes back to around the foundation of Israel in 1948, or possibly a few decades before that when Zionism started to take off and Jews began to emigrate to Palestine in earnest.
While one might stretch and call the Philistines and Canaanites proto-Arabs, it should be noted that the early Hebrews' struggles with these peoples were well before Jesus or Mohammad entered the scene. And these conflicts generally stopped once the Greeks and Romans took over in the Levant.
And lastly, from the Middle Ages until the second half of the 20th Century, Muslims were way more friendly towards Jews than were Christians. Jews lived fairly peacably in Moorish Spain and it was the Catholics who later instigated the Inquisition. Jews peacefully coexisted with Muslims in the Holy Land before the Crusades, and when Jerusalem was sacked in 1099, the Crusaders massacred both Jews and Muslims in droves. The Crusaders also massacred Jews in Europe on their way to the Holy Land. Furthermore the Ottoman Empire was fairly benign towards Jews as well, letting many of those who were forced to flee Catholic Spain settle in their territories. The Dreyfus Affair happened in Christian France, pogroms happened in Christian Russia and the Holocaust happened in Christian Europe (Pope Pius XII aided the Holocaust, or at least turned a blind eye towards it).
Of course there were squabbles between Jews and Muslims throughout the ages - Jews had to pay crazy taxes to the Islamic authorities and there were other items - but nothing approaching the cataclysmic confrontations and massacres between Christians and Jews or Christians and Muslims.
Call me an Jewish apostate, but I think it's the combination of Israel and oil that's been causing troubles for the past 60 years. From Arab eyes, the state of Israel is colonialism, a festering open wound on the flesh of the Muslim heartland. And obscene oil revenues leads to despotic governments who channel peoples' dissatisfaction into anti-Semitism. This is probably too simplistic, but what do you want on Clipstone St.?
I also firmly believe Israel has a right to exist and to defend itself, but this right has to somehow be balanced with the Arab/Muslim considerations. I don't know how to accomplish this; it seems even more intractable to me than the quagmire in Iraq.
ahem, is this the pc comment section or the history lesson section or neither.. sheesh - new caller please.
Why don't you do a new Crackpod post before you get on my case, Liquido! Then I'll drop a history dump on that blog as well.
Random - awesome post!! And not to argue against your admittedly superior knowledge of History, but I do believe that the people I am referring to as "Arabs" have had a problem with the Jews for at least 1,000 years. Not a serious problem, mind you, but one nonetheless. Now the Zionist movement certainly started to fan the flames, and the creation of Israel brought it to a boil (one sentence, two cliches!). My post didn't mean to take a side, it was more a reaction to the sadness that I feel for the innocents on both sides. War is bad, mgay?
Mixing metaphors is almost as much fun as mixing Saphire & tonics.
What 1000 year history of strife between Arabs and Jews do you mean? Let's review. 1000 ago it was year 1000. From 1000 to 1300 or so, the main conflict in the Levant was the Crusades. Between Christian Europeans and Eastern Muslims. Jews were slaughtered as byproduct, mainly by Christians. 1300-1900, roughly, the Ottoman Empire ruled that same area and, as far as I recall, there weren't major conflicts between the empire and the Jews, or between Arabs and Jews, or between Muslims and Jews. Then it's 1900 and Zionism spreads its wings (how's that metaphor?) and the turds drop from the sky.
Of course there might've been land issues between the peoples up until 1900 or so, but just what major, 1000 year long conflict are you referring to? I'm not trying to be cocky. Am I completely missing something?
Random - I am not referring to any major conflict, and I think that's where the misunderstanding lies. From what I know, there is a longstanding, general dislike. That's all I meant. But I learn more from you comments than I did in 4 years of High School. Camino 2 U!!!
What year is it??
Post a Comment